is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Step 8: Allow to dry. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. Installation. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Gettin' a little delirious. I imagine we could share some good stories. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. I'm thirsty. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . . This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Step 7: Cut the Tile. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. In . Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. How do I connect these two faces together? Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. They are square. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. x 60 in. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Why is this the case? You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. The shower is ready for tile. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. . I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Thanks Paul! And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. It fell right off? One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. New England. DensShield is one common brand. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. ! For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. You provide the pitch during the tile set. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). x 48 in. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! It only takes a minute to sign up. The mortar does . The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? But there are downsides. rev2023.3.3.43278. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. 3. Do you have any pictures? Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! Cut the shower tray to size. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? I appreciate your help and your quick response. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. To line niche shelves, for instance. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Step 3: Apply Thinset. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Install the drain adapter, if needed. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. the cost of the tile job. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. The site is called floorelf.com. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. When installing KERDI with . The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! RedGard On Hardibacker Board. All it takes is the right preparation. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Hang the cement boar. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Required fields are marked *. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. 4. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. I trust it and have never had a callback. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Step 2: Determine the room's center. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board.